Monday, August 27, 2012

trying to figure it out


Re: The NPD Woman. What Is She Like?

Postby My2cents » Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:01 am
What is the NPD woman like? Narcissistic. Other than that, it depends on which one.

Narcissists form an image of the ideal person they want to be, and act like that's who they are. How they present themselves depends on which qualities they consider most important.

I've known one and seen several of the traits I'm about to list. I think most of the items in the list will apply to most narcissists, of any age.

-Sense of humor is never self-deprecating. It's usually laughing about other people to look down on them. She would be very embarrassed if her own flaws were exposed.

-She has a history of failed relationships (romantic, family, friends, work), but they are invariably the other person's fault.

-She has an inordinate desire to be praised or thanked. Should you not praise frequently enough, or on an occasion she expects it, she will be upset. Maybe it will come out as light-hearted teasing or compliment-fishing instead of aggressively demanding praise, but it's clear that she expects to be praised. She wants credit and recognition.

-If someone else is better than her at something, either it's not an important skill, or it's because the other person has an unfair advantage. It can't be because she isn't as good and should look up to the person.

-Accuses other people of being arrogant. This is projection. If she is the first to notice another person's arrogance, says she knows a lot of arrogant people, is the only person to say that a certain person is arrogant, then pay attention.

-Doesn't seem to understand the difference between objective and subjective. Her opinion is a fact. If she believes something, any sensible person would believe it too. If you disagree, you arewrong, and you're arrogant for thinking you knew when you clearly didn't.

-Is very concerned about how her friends, children, etc, make her look. If she has children, their morality is based on don't do anything that will reflect badly on mommy. If she values intelligence, all of her friends will be articulate and well-read. If she values appearance, all of her friends will be dressed fashionably. She doesn't want someone in her entourage that will make her look bad. But they can't upstage her either.

-All her failures are someone else's fault. If her team lost the basketball game, it's because her teammate didn't pass her the ball more often. If she failed her history paper about how Martin Luther stole all of his ideas from John Calvin, it's because her professor is a Lutheran, not because she was wrong (that's just an example I made up). By the way, she knows at least as much about every subject as each of her professors.

-It's her way or the highway. Either she is running the show, or she is not interested.

-She might have plenty to say about other people. So-and-so is incompetent, crazy, ugly, rude, unfashionable . . . usually bad things about someone else. We all do it sometimes, but she does it more often.

-Absolutely hates being corrected on factual errors. If you're arguing, and she realizes you areright, you are sleeping on the couch tonight. If she is telling her friends she met you 7 months ago, and you say no it was 6 months ago, she will resent you for embarrassing her in front of her friends.

She could have any occupation, any physique, any religion, whatever. The important thing is to listen to what she says. She will say a sentence here or there which gives you a window into her thoughts. If you listen when she talks, once in a while she will say something and think nothing of it, but you might think it seems unusual.

Pay attention to how yourself, your family, your friends, and other people behave around her. See how your habits change. Whenever you meet someone, your behavior will subtly adapt. Depending on her personality, your behavior will change in certain ways. If you catch yourself developing a habit you didn't have before, think about it.
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e: The NPD Woman. What Is She Like?

Postby expressivecreative » Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:43 pm
I've always wondered about this. I know a woman who I believe to be NPD, and if she is the model case, the criteria would be very different then what some here have described.
1) She's very successful. Wildly so. And interesting, well-traveled, beautiful, fashionable, always put together, the life of the party. Extrovert extrovert extrovert.
2) Her image is everything. She rarely says anything negative about someone, unless they are outside her inner circle, and then only rarely. When you talk with her, she talks about you you you - gets you to open up with your dreams / fears, etc. She NEVER shares her own emotions and is terrified of intimacy.
3) She is a compulsive liar. Tells exotic tales that are obviously concocted to entertain. I've even caught her describing her emotions by repeating back to me what I had previously told her I FELT about something. She had a bad memory obviously.
4) All her friends are either beautiful, exceptionally talented, wealthy, or successful in some way.
5) Her allegiance is always to her male friends. Women are disposable.
6) If she has a history of failed relationships, nobody knows about it. Her ex-husband lives across country, and she admitted to me that she married him "for financial security." Her new husband is very successful, handsome, etc.
7) She seems so perfect it's like she's made a pact with the devil or something.
8) She has zero empathy for her friends. Won't lift a finger to help somebody - in fact, I suspect she may conspire to "get rid" of other attractive, successful females, particularly if they see through her act (I called her on her lying, for example and she became quite close to my boyfriend over time - until he dumped me).
9) Nobody really knows her - how she feels about anything. And she's super high IQ - brilliant, talented.

I would think the difference between NPD / HPD with women is emotionality. HPD's express what they truly feel - although these emotions shift so rapidly that they seem shallow to others. They will tell you what they feel before they tell you what they think. And I think HPD's are capable of empathy - some people actually prefer the term "empath" to "HPD" - although I think this varies. My mother was an HPD and she certainly had zero empathy when it came to me. She hated me and told me so quite often.

NPD's are cold and rarely share their "true" emotions. They will sometimes lie about their emotions, but you can spot it. The woman I've described would always take a deep breath before she answered a question about how she felt - and it was always a quip followed by a smile - hard to explain, but I could always spot it. My NPD ex boyfriend had an "empathy face" - I've got pictures of it. He uses it a lot. It's quite persuasive and suits his introverted personality - silence - empathy face while listening - silence. And he had a great smile which he often used to his advantage. But I swear the man did not feel a single emotion outside of envy, pride, and anger.

I don't know if this helps. I haven't met a lot of NPD women - and I work in academia. Most NPD's are male IMO.
The woods are lovely, dark, and deep, / But I have promises to keep, / And miles to go before I sleep, / And miles to go before I sleep.

dx: HPD with borderline tendencies, depression
suicide attempt 10/2/10
rx: Wellbutrin, valium
EMDR guinea pig (I'll let you know if it works)
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Would you consider me NPD? Very concerned.

Postby TooMuchThinking1 » Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:07 pm
I really hope someone here can help me. I haven't been diagnosed with this and have been to a psychiatrist before. I do intend to go to one again eventually but don't have the opportunity right now.

I have a pretty bad case of OCD (Pure O, specifically), and tend to obsessively think about things and fears all the time, such as something I might be or have. I went through quite a while being terrified that I have all kinds of mental disorders and physical diseases, and I kind of rotate between many difference obsessions and themes when I finally feel assured about previous ones.

I know when I say how I'm scared that I'm a narcissist, that it might come off as offensive to narcissists that browse this board, but I don't mean it to be that way. I'm simply very scared that I'm not the person I've always thought I am, and that a lot of feelings and emotions I've had have been fake or nonexistent. I feel scared that I don't care for anyone at all. I get really upset when I don't feel something I think I should, and yet I feel relieved when I feel guilt or feel bad for something or if I feel what I interpret as empathy.

I live pretty much like a recluse. I'm 24 years old, I don't have a job, I'm not in school, and I don't have any close friends really. It hasn't always been this way, but I know that my life is pretty much the most pathetic out of everyone I know. At least as far as I know, it is. I still live with my parents. I want to be independent, live my own life, have friends, have a girlfriend, and be able to live like any normal human being, but it seems like something about me is defective and incapable. I spent the past few years drinking a lot and ended up in the hospital because I nearly destroyed my liver. I pretty much feel very depressed all the time and anxious. I constantly worry about what's wrong with me and do research all day on the Internet to try and figure it out. And lately my obsession has been narcissism. I've read through Sam Vaknin's website probably a hundred times and little things on there sound like me and I spike with anxiety.

Reacts to criticism with anger, shame, or humiliation: This is pretty much true for me, depending on the kind of criticism. I end up ruminating about it for days and feeling very sad about myself, and believe that what they said was absolutely true. Sometimes I'll get very defensive, overly so, especially if I feel like they're being unfair to me. I've overreacted to criticism in the past, and have ended up apologizing many times. Sometimes it really feels justified though, and like I'm being victimized.

May take advantage of others to reach their own goal: I don't really do this. I can't imagine myself pursuing a friendship or relationship of any kind in order to help me reach a goal. I really don't have any goals, besides succeeding as a musician, which I'm scared is grandiose because I do often fantasize about playing on stage to a crowd.

Tends to exaggerate their own importance, achievements, and talents: I do this to an extent, but try my best to be humble and honest. Sometimes I'll even downplay certain things (I think). But the good aspects that I do have (musical talent, writing, making people laugh, relatively high IQ), I like for people to know so that they'll respect me and appreciate who I am. But I never exaggerate to the point where it's ridiculous. I always make sure, for instance, to make it clear what I haven't accomplished. I feel the need to be at least mostly honest.

Imagines unrealistic fantasies of success, beauty, power, intelligence, or romance: I do fantasize about being better looking than I actually am. My hair started falling out as a teenager and I've always idealized myself in the future as somehow having hair again, which is actually pretty ridiculous. I'd like to be able to reach my potentially intellectually because I think other people find me to be rather dull and uninformed about a lot of things. There is a lot that I don't know. I don't fantasize about power or authority. The only success I fantasize about is succeeding as a musician.

Requires constant attention and positive reinforcement from others: I don't really seek out attention, but I did when I was younger. Lately I prefer to be alone. When my parents ask if something is wrong, I panic and say no, and I get the instinct to hide. In fact, whenever a family member is in the same room as me or near me, I cringe and experience an intense surge ofanxiety and frustration. They have every right to live their lives as they wish, and they're not doing anything wrong, so I don't say anything and try not to reveal any frustration. My mother noticed the other day and told me it makes her feel bad, and I felt so guilty and bad for her that I tried to put some spin on it that I find it difficult to concentrate on what I'm reading.

Easily becomes jealous: I think this is definitely true for me, when in a romantic/sexual relationship. I become very jealous when I feel like the girl is flirting with other guys or might be lying to me about something. I don't mind when she finds someone good looking or anything like that. I just feel betrayed over little things (and of course big things).

Lacks empathy and disregards the feelings of others: I've obsessed and worried so much about this that I can't say for sure I even know how to define empathy. I do know that there are moments where I feel truly bad for someone when they're embarrassed. I do cry at emotional moments in movies and TV shows. I find it very difficult to watch awkward or embarrassing scenes, because I feel that awkward/embarrassment/anxiety intensely. I remember I was watching the Spurs game a couple weeks ago when Splitter airballed two free throws, and I felt so bad for him because it must have been embarrassing. But when I think too hard about it, I get scared that that's not empathy. Sometimes I don't empathize at all with people. I don't think I feel as bad as I should when bad news reports come on about people dying. When friends come to me with their problems, I do devote time and thought and discuss it with them, but I don't know if I really care as much as I come across. I don't seem to "feel" their issues, but I feel like I should be a friend because they do the same for me if I come to them for support.

Obsessed with oneself: I think I am a little too obsessed with myself. I look at my reflection whenever I pass by a mirror or car window. I worry about my hair loss, my skin, my body, my height. I'm very insecure about my appearance, and other times I feel like I'm good looking. I'm very self-conscious about how I act in social situations, and very often I go home feeling awful about myself for no reason. I feel like I bore people, that I'm not funny, that I'm not interesting, that I'm not a good conversationalist anymore. I feel like I used to have a great personality and now I don't.

Mainly pursues selfish goals: I don't seem to pursue any goals at all. I have started exercising and my goal is to get in shape, so I suppose that is selfish. I write music and want to be a successful musician, but I do very little to pursue that besides practicing guitar. I don't really do anything and I find it embarrassing and sad.

Trouble keeping healthy relationships: I guess this is me. In terms of romantic relationships, I've never had one that wasn't filled with a lot of pain. I try to be a good person, but I think I've gotten involved with the wrong people. Or I don't meet their expectations and they find someone better. When I was a teenager, I cheated on my 3 year girlfriend. I do recall feeling bad about it, but also I felt validated because I felt that she had betrayed me in ways in the past too. I felt validated that I wasn't completely attached to only her and that I could find someone else too. But I do remember feeling bad about it, even before I had told her. Although now I overthink it and I'm not sure of anything.

Is easily hurt and rejected: As I explained before, this is very true for me.

Sets unrealistic goals: My goal in music is unrealistic. I don't really have any goals, besides I guess settling for a decent life with a full time job and hopefully a girlfriend. Hopefully my own damn place finally when I get off my ass.

Wants "the best" of everything: I recall many times feeling this way. Other times, I feel comfortable being second or third best. I feel comfortable when I feel like I'm good enough. I just never seem to feel that way. I enjoy being the funniest in a situation. But sometimes being able to just make someone laugh a couple of times when hanging out, makes me satisfied and go home happy. In the past I remember feeling uncomfortable when I'm not the "leader" of a social situation, because there were so many times when I was. In high school I was the shy quiet kid who sat alone. Yet then I was the talkative funny person when I got out of high school and I really enjoyed it. Now I just wish I was valid and good enough to participate and be part of something.

Appears as tough-minded or unemotional: I think I come off as just the opposite of that. I feel like I'm just the opposite. I've thought so hard and worried so much about this that I don't even know what emotions are anymore. At the same time, I feel sad a lot and I've talked to friends about it. I've cried and everything. I've asked for help and support. I think I'm doing that now, in a way.

I think as a son I'm a complete asshole to my parents, because when they're around me I tense up and just want to be alone. Most of the time I just stay alone at home worrying about things. I quit drinking, but when I think about narcissism or sociopathy or mental disorders, etc. I just want to get drunk because I feel like I can't deal with it anymore. I relapsed recently because of my obsessing and anxiety.

Do I seem like a narcissist? I'm afraid of getting a full diagnosis. I feel like if they say I'm not one, I won't believe them. I'll continue worrying and analyzing all my thoughts and feelings, and just feeling bad about it.
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